If you haven't figured it out yet, I'm a geek. Through and through. This post deals with one aspect of my geekiness: roleplaying games! I love roleplaying games. I've been into rpgs for, wow, about 9 years now. Not as much "geek cred" as some, but I don't care about bragging, I just care about having fun.
Unfortunately, sometimes the "having fun" part gets trampled over by sexist morons.
Right now I'm in two gaming groups, something I was really happy about at first. But as we got into the games and I interacted with the other players more, I realized that there were some basic differences in worldviews: namely that I was a feminist and the others weren't. In this case the other players and the GMs are all male; this is not to say all male gamers are sexist, or that female gamers aren't. Just, in this case, the fact that these people are all members of the priveleged gender is probably a huge contributing factor to the fact that they don't realize (or care) that they are being sexist.
In Gaming Group One, we're playing a game set in ancient China (names omitted to save the reputation of otherwise well-written rpgs); which, as far as settings go, is not the most enlightened of times in terms of treating women like people. However, this is an rpg full of combat-focused characters so social, political and cultural themes are not really being paid much attention to, so it doesn't come up often. This last session the characters end up visiting a Buddhist temple and the GM, while describing who and what we see, says "Buddhists, being a bunch of sexist pigs, don't believe women should be allowed to be monks, so everyone you meet in the monastery is male." okay, whatever, it's ancient China, that's true. Fifteen minutes later we're discussing ways to assasinate a rival emperor:
Me: Well, forgetting about magic, a knife in the ribs does the job.
GM: oh, so you're going to get a job as a palace concubine, then?
Me: What? Where the hell did that come from?
GM: Well, you were saying that someone should just stab him.
Me: yeah, but there are any number of ways to get close to him!
GM: I suppose you're right.
gah! Who is the sexist now? I know it's just one comment, but it was treating my character (and me) as though sex was the only thing I was good for. If one of the guys had said "Why don't I just stab him?" then no concubine comment would have been made. But because I'm female, that automatically means sex is involved, because apparently all that women are good for is sex. It's very frustrating to have to interact with people who believe sexist things, especially when they seem to think that they're not sexist. Disparaging ancient Chinese culture for its blatant sexism, while subtly treating me like a sex object: that still means you're sexist.
Meanwhile, in Gaming Group Two, we're playing a game set in South America in the 1970s. Again, not the most egalitarian society in terms of women's rights. Needless to say I'm the only female player (and character). Am I surprised that the non-player characters harrass and try to flirt with my character, no, not really. Does it have to be mentioned all the time? No. Does it have to happen every scene? No. Would it kill the GM to just lay off? Okay, we get it, the NPCs ignore what I say because I'm female, and only pay attention to me when they want to flirt. Listen, we're playing a game, folks, make believe: can't we make believe that I'm being treated with a bit of respect, can't we stop dwelling on all the sexist crap and treat me like a human, here?
Really, that's what it is about, respect and being treated like a human. In either group, these guys show up to a session and they sit down and have fun gaming. When they leave, they never feel like they've been belitted or lessened because of who they are. They never get made uncomfortable for being male, they never sit there feeling like a hunk of meat, and they never have to even worry about being put in a situation that would make them feel sexually harrassed (I mean, except for Deliverance-type situations, I suppose. But, funny enough, those never seem to arrive). Meanwhile, because I'm female, situations arise all the time that make me uncomfortable.
Of course, if I even hint at being uncomfortable or annoyed, in either gaming group, the guys get defensive. Oh, sure, they say "sorry", but they don't mean it as an apology for making me feel upset. They mean it as "I'm sorry that you got upset", as if it was somehow my fault for getting insulted by an insulting comment. Of course they make all kinds of defensive comments next "But it's ancient China..." "But it's rural South America in the 70s..." and "Come on, it's just normal in this setting."
huh, funny how all the settings have sexually-harrassing women and treating women as second-class citizens as the norm. I haven't played in an rpg yet in which women weren't as a default considered lesser than men in the society in the setting (that's not to say there aren't any out there, but that the big, popular ones all have a little bit of sexism in them). I'll bet if I wrote an rpg in which men were abused and treated like objects I'd be called a "man hater", no one would read it (much less buy it), and everyone would tell me the setting had too much of an agenda. oh, so if I do something sexist towards men, it's bad, but being sexist towards women is just normal? Yikes.
*sigh* And getting my gaming-friends to see reason and not be a bunch of pigs is a slow, frustrating endeavour. I hope I'm getting through to them at least a little bit. Or, at the very least, maybe the next time they think of a sexist comment they won't actually say it. I can live with that.
Sunday, April 29, 2007
"But sexism is normal in RPGs!"
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15 comments:
I totally sympathize with your frustration, here. I used to game with a great group of guys who, for all that they're enlightened men who care deeply about me, their female gaming buddy, and many other women, spent one entire session entirely unable to stop making rape jokes.
Oh, it's hilarious.
Well, it is definitely a truth of rpg world that men generally have no idea to treat women. On the one hand there is this behavior, on the other hand there is the behavior in MMO's of males showering any female character in gifts and free help, etc. I guess us nerdy guys just don't know what to do with women.
Role playing well is hard. I think that most role players fall back on there more base instincts when they are having trouble filling out there persona in the game. Males basically are most fascinated with fighting and sex. Some people may say that his is not true, but I think we can all agree that those two things are in the top five. A bunch of guys in a room role playing any type of sexual encounter is tragically funny are best. So that leaves the most common RPG focus… Combat. The point I am (poorly) trying to make is that even if your groups did not choose to play in sexist settings, you would still have to deal with the fact that most RPGs are designed by boys for boys.
As a man I cannot say I understand what you are going through, but as a role player I can say that if you take what happens in the game personally something will eventually happen that makes you not want to play anymore. I can also sympathies with your friends “concubine” statement. There is a puzzle solving aspect to role playing that is difficult to not get too sucked up in. I bet in his head he was thinking “If I was in this situation, and a hot chick I would just…” That is unless you have a history of using your sexuality to solve problems. I played with a girl once that wanted to solve ever problem by sleeping with someone. We quickly decided to either play or drink… not both.
There are a lot of RPG settings that are more feminist friendly that the ones you are playing in. It also might be fun to dump the whole setting on its end by overcoming the stereotype. But that would have to by something your GM is open to letting happen. I’ll bet he is. If he isn’t, find a better GM.
I would love to know what it is you like about role playing. Every female I ask gives me a different answer.
@Nero
Since her response to a problem ruler was combat, I'm inclined to think that this particular person is probably okay with hack and slash.
Being bloodthirsty is one of many reasons why females like roleplaying games. ;)
What the problem with the GMs who are thinking 'concubine' is the only role for a female in an assassination attempt and that all NPCs leer and make requests is that it comes across more that the GM is clearly thinking of her as a sexual being, before thinking of her as a person.
Sexist environments are fine, as limitations lead to good roleplay to overcome them. The problem I see is that the limitations are more based on sex then sexism. If the culture does give women a lesser role, this gives her advantages beyond sleeping with people.
For example, even sexist patriarchies have many roles for women that would make been equally practical for infiltration to kill a ruler, such as 'cleaning lady'. It would probably be easier to infiltrate a palace with a mop and bucket (you can also push a hand cart with a male member of your assassination team crouched inside) than it would be in skimpy silks.
As for the deep south roleplaying, the sexism mentioned doesn’t look much like the range of sexism I encounter in real life. Little lady-ing and drooling at cleavage are one aspect, but she should also encounter an equal share of people who are fiercely protective of her and ridiculously helpful. She should have men who think her favours are negotiable… But also men who would fight those men, and would wrestle her suitcase from her to carry it.
The GM of the Asian game seems to be having a bit of trouble with his setting if he has to apologize for a monastery being all men in his description. It’s a monastery. If she were looking for women she should try a nunnery. Calling the culture that of ‘sexist pigs’ suggests that he’s somehow surprised that a building be sex segregated or that he’s needlessly uncomfortable and feels he must apologize for the way things were in China.
I have some Isabelle Allende books you can borrow to beat them over the head with...also a book of traditional Chinese folktales that has at least one monster-slaying heroine in it, I'm not sure which is heavier but you could use them all and see which leaves the bigger dent!
You wrote...
"They never get made uncomfortable for being male, they never sit there feeling like a hunk of meat, and they never have to even worry about being put in a situation that would make them feel sexually harrassed (I mean, except for Deliverance-type situations, I suppose. But, funny enough, those never seem to arrive)."
Well... sometimes they do.
Warning: Possibly Triggering Material Ahead
Years back, during an early '80s paper & pencil RPG campaign, I got so sick of the sexist BS from the guys that I introduced a monster species which sexually preyed on human MALES, just to give them a taste of how un-funny their frequent “Let’s rape the townswomen” jokes were.
The monsters were known as the Kerek. They were large, humanoid creatures forced from their native lands long ago by crusading human mages and had taken up residence in certain remote areas near where the player characters were campaigning.
The human mages had played one last, cruel trick on the fleeing Kerek: a two-fold curse. The first part made the Kerek males prisoners of lust, so much so that they would go mad, and eventually die - without regular sexual intercourse. The second part was that any female having sex with them would die from it. The mages figured this would finish off the remnant of their kind, so they let the surviving males escape into the wilds.
The mages were wrong. After all the females died off, the Kerek turned to raping human women (and anything else they could get their hands on) only to have them all die, too. The remaining Kerak males were about to turn on each other when it occured to them: What about human males?
So began the Kerek raids into human settlements for sexually appealing males. By Kerek standards, muscular bodies are the most appealing, so he-man fighter types like the players’ characters were prime targets.
Men taken by the Kerak can expect to be either shared among a group or “married” to one of the stronger warriors. Either way they are dressed and treated as Kerekian females with two key differences: First, their teeth are knocked out. (You can guess why.) Second, their thumbs and toes are cut off to prevent them from handling weapons or running very far.
There were even more horrific penalties for refusing sex to their “husbands.”
Finally, as the icing on the cake, I told my players that the reason the Kerek still exist at all is that their own wizards had figured out a way for human males to bear Kerekian children. For obvious reasons, all such “births” are surgical and result in the death of the human male. Also, while pregnant, the human male’s personality is transformed by the Kerekian sorcery into that of an actual Kerekian female, so he welcomes both the pregnancy and the further attentions of Kerekian males.
And that’s the story.
I laid (no pun intended) this on my players one week to the day after one of them asked me - in complete seriousness - if his character could rape a farmgirl. Would I as the GM, he asked, take revenge upon him? He thought I shouldn’t take such things “personally” and just be a dispassionate rulebook adjudicator. After all, he said, we "get away" with thieving and killing... why not sex crimes?
When I finished describing the Kerek, my players were statues for about five straight minutes. Literally… they neither moved nor spoke. We then knocked off for dinner and when we reassembled five of the ten told me I was either a “gay pervert” or trying to impress the two women in our group by turning the tables and placing men in sexual danger.
I’m not hitting on them, I replied, but the latter is precisely the point. Do you still want to molest some village girls? Not quite so funny now, is it? The five promptly left and shortly thereafter I couldn’t get a phone call returned, let alone organize a fantasy RPG group, from any of the local gaming circles.
Within days, I had complete strangers accosting me in Waterloo Hobbies and at school, wanting to know what the hell was wrong with me that I should introduce such “faggot” material into my campaign.
That, plus a few other stunts, eventually got me blacklisted from every local fantasy RPG gaming circle. This occasioned my move to sci-fi and Traveller, which was just fine with me. Honestly, how many goddamned magic swords can you have, anyway?
I've been lucky enough to play in games where this hasn't been the case, which is part of why it makes me so mad when it happens--I know from experience that it's not only possible but easy to make a non-sexist game.
(sorry about the anonymity, I don't have an account)
I'm often suprised when I read about the rampant sexism many female gamers face. As a female gamer I've usually been the minority but never been treated differently from the other gamers in my groups. I don't know what you should do to find less sexist players (as I've never had that issue due to playing with good friends or just mixed groups of males and females) but you might have more luck with finding less sexist players in less sexist settings? Try looking at Exalted, World of Darkness, Obsidian, or Shadowrun for example? If you like the Asian feel Exalted has a very egalitarian society in the Realm (you could play a Dragonblood game). Just a fellow female gamer giving a suggestion.
Hi,
I hear you.It'a always the same excuse of "realism", when their characters never get their injuries infected. :P
"I'll bet if I wrote an rpg in which men were abused and treated like objects I'd be called a "man hater", no one would read it (much less buy it)"
Well, there's Maidenheim. It's an amazon setting for d20 but it wasn't very successful. IMO it wasn't very good either. I would have prefered if it was based in greek mitology but it was more generic.
Any way, you were right, that kind of settings are few and not sucessful because most men doesn't like them. XD
I hope you'll find a better group to play or you could always create one. ^_^
Apologies for the anonymity, I don't have a Blogger account at the moment.
Perhaps twenty years ago, as a male player preparing to play a male character in a variant AD&D campaign, because of the female GM's house rules which added Comeliness as an attribute, it was explained to me that I would have to create a new character. I made the mistake of rolling the maximum possible Comeliness, outshadowing a favorite NPC, and the GM deemed my elf thief too pretty to be played. I had just spent half the evening creating that character and really wanted to play, so I insisted that she accept the character. She gave me a cold stare, but relented and I foolishly thought that was the end of it.
I sat down at the gaming table with the other players, but before I had even joined the party, the GM icily declared that my character woke to find himself captured by slavers. I was shocked at first, but figured she planned to have the party come upon the slavers and rescue my elf, thereby serving as his introduction to the other PCs. I could not have been more wrong. The GM then began describing how the slavers tied up and gang-raped my character, in far more detail than most at the table found tolerable. I finally stood up and left after about ten minutes of continued abuse, but gave the GM a few choice words before I did.
So I definitely empathize, and say to you simply that this is not the sort of behavior that any player, no matter their gender or that of their character, need accept from fellow players. I can understand if people actively choose to explore the serious issue of rape through the medium of roleplaying, but no one should be pushed past personal limits of comfort. Especially not for petty reasons that player and GM should be able to negotiate. I do not even think casual jests are appropriate, regardless of whether the group consists of men, women or a mix.
Alas, maturity is not a requirement to play games, and even enlightened people can lapse into unenlightened behavior at the drop of a hat. All we can really do is cultivate more awareness of, and more sensitivity to, the feelings of those with whom we play. And if the Philistine men (and their rare but existent female counterparts) fail to clue in, feel free to smack them soundly upside the noggin with a haddock.
Have you ever read Wendy Shalit's "A Return to Modesty?" Feminists have trained men to say the right things, but at the same time everything in pop culture teaches people of both genders that women equal their bodies.
I think it is grossly inappropriate, the way those men treated you (and Revena, above). I think that it's sick and wrong, especially in her case, and they ought to be ashamed of themselves. But what's disturbing is that they aren't. They really do think that they're doing the right thing, being "enlightened" and "tolerant" and non-sexist. They just don't think it's wrong to say such things, because isn't that the appropriate thing to say? Why are you offended by them? they wonder.
I find it similarly disturbing that a lot of women say they aren't sexist ... that they want everyone to be respected and treated equally, and that they want to be seen as more than a body. And then at the same time, they think that they can wear whatever they want, whenever they want. And if guys have a problem with it, that's their problem.
Ms. Shalit's book, I think, covers the reason why these things are happening. I strongly recommend it, especially to a feminist ... or anyone else, who cares about women actually being treated like human beings.
Jared,
I find I have to take issue with your comment.
Have you ever read Wendy Shalit's "A Return to Modesty?" Feminists have trained men to say the right things, but at the same time everything in pop culture teaches people of both genders that women equal their bodies.
Feminists have trained men to say the right things? Then why do they keep saying the wrong things? Some men truly understand concepts of equality and treating women like people and they do just fine. But there are a lot of men who say sexist crap and you can hardly blame that on feminists. Yes, pop culture tells people that women equal their bodies, pop culture treats women like sex objects: this is not the work of feminism and feminism doesn't run pop culture. Pop culture is something feminists are still working very hard to change into something that is /not sexist/.
But what's disturbing is that they aren't. They really do think that they're doing the right thing, being "enlightened" and "tolerant" and non-sexist. They just don't think it's wrong to say such things, because isn't that the appropriate thing to say? Why are you offended by them? they wonder.
That would rather surprise me. I can't say what they are thinking but what it seems to me is that they are simply /not/ thinking about what it means to treat women fairly. They are not considering the meaning of their words, that they are treating women like objects.
I find it similarly disturbing that a lot of women say they aren't sexist ... that they want everyone to be respected and treated equally, and that they want to be seen as more than a body. And then at the same time, they think that they can wear whatever they want, whenever they want. And if guys have a problem with it, that's their problem.
Wait, so guys see women as just bodies and it's the woman's fault for wanting to wear whatever clothing she wants? I don't follow that at all. Yes, if you wear a bikini then people will find you sexy and admire your body. But there is a big difference between being lusted after and being treated as an object. There is a big difference between being treated like a person and being admired for your body. You can admire someone's body without treating them as if their body was the only thing that matters. Right now pop culture tells us that women are nothing more than their bodies. The simple fact is that women /are/ more than their bodies. So, yes, women should be able to wear whatever they want whenever they want, so should men. In an equal and fair feminist society, that wouldn't be a problem. In a sexist culture like ours, it's apparently a problem for women to wear whatever clothing they want because our culture views women as sex objects, nothing more. Either we hide our bodies and society lets us pretend that we're people, or we try to enjoy our bodies and society tells us we are merely objects.
Ms. Shalit's book, I think, covers the reason why these things are happening. I strongly recommend it, especially to a feminist ... or anyone else, who cares about women actually being treated like human beings.
Well, I'll take a glance at it. But if Ms. Shalit seems to have your line of argument I doubt I'll find it very useful. It is soceity, not feminism that tells women that they have to be sexy and on-show for men all the time. It is a sexist society, not feminism, that tells women that their only virtue is their body and that that virtue, their bodies, has to be immediately on display and accessible to men.
Thank you for responding to my comment! I think you are right that they are still saying the wrong things. But I find it odd that they should think that they are behaving properly.
I apologize if you found my argument weak. It was very spur of the moment.
Wait, so guys see women as just bodies and it's the woman's fault for wanting to wear whatever clothing she wants? I don't follow that at all.
You are right, and I'm sorry for the misunderstanding. Saying that it is the woman's fault is blaming the victim.
At the same time, however, if a woman wanted to be seen as an object, how do you think she would dress?
If she chose to dress that way for some other reason, could she fault anyone for thinking that that's what she wanted?
In a sexist culture like ours, it's apparently a problem for women to wear whatever clothing they want because our culture views women as sex objects, nothing more.
Is their clothing discouraging this trend? Or is it, like the tight shirts that read "My eyes are up here ^," sending a mixed message?
Either we hide our bodies and society lets us pretend that we're people, or we try to enjoy our bodies and society tells us we are merely objects.
What are you telling society, by the way that you dress? That you think that others are real people? Or that you think that they are objects, who wouldn't choose to try to please you but have to be slyly manipulated? Objects whose feelings don't matter, because you want them to feel something else?
Why can't people enjoy being themselves, and let others have the same privilege? And why would I want to meet someone who's sending the message that she thinks I'm an object, unless I don't care what she thinks and I just want to keep looking at her?
What would we talk about? How much she enjoys her body, and would like me to do the same? And what are my friends going to think, when they see me with someone who's dressed like that? Will they believe me when I tell them that I'm attracted to her for her kindness and personality?
Then someone whistles at her, and she gets upset at him, and vents to me about how rude people are. And I'm biting my tongue looking down at the floor, and wondering how many times I'll see this repeated tonight.
Jared,
You are still Not Getting It. You're still blaming women for the sexist actions of society. You seem to be saying that unless a woman is completely and utterly modestly dressed then she deserves getting demeaning stares and catcalls, that unless a woman completely disguises her body and femininity that she should expect to get treated like an object.
In this culture, society yells at women however they're dressed. This is clear sexism: women are not allowed to choose what they want to wear, of any variety. If a woman wears baggy or non-sexy clothing society yells at her through ads, media and personal comments that she's a prude and should be sexier (should wear this eyeliner or that tight skirt or this lipstick, etc.). However, if a woman actually does choose to wear tighter clothing society doesn't treat her any kinder: she's a sex object, only seen by the world in definition of her body and heaven forbid she refuses anyone's advances or ignores the catcalls, then she gets considered slutty.
Sexist comments and catcalls come from the idea that men are entitled to women's bodies. It is that men's-desires-trump-women's-choices idea that motivates men to make leering comments and the like. They may justify it to themselves by saying "She was wearing a tight shirt, therefore she wants me" or "She was wearing a skirt, therefore it's okay" but those lines of thinking are mere rationalization so the men can do what they want; they are not truly thinking about what the woman would want or feel.
It is a damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't society for women. Whatever we wear is unacceptable to a sexist society. We're demeaned no matter what we wear either as prudes or sluts. We can't win by trying to play society's game so we have to play our own. We have to dress however we want whenever we want and just live our lives the way we choose, sexists be damned. Blaming us because misogynists choose to treat us as objects is blaming the victim.
Now, that is where I stand and you cannot convince me otherwise. If you post another blame-the-victim-filled comment I will ignore it.
You're right. One shouldn't do anything just because society expects it. There's always some part of society that looks down on you either way. I applaud you for having the courage to choose your own path in the face of conflicting messages.
I just personally like being around modest (not frumpy, but neatly dressed) women more. Because it's nice to be attractive, but to me it is more attractive to be nice, and to have respect for the people you're around. Whether you're a man who realizes a woman might not want to listen to your rude jokes, or a woman who realizes a man might not want to stare at your midriff.
I guess you don't want to be lectured, and I'm sorry for doing so. I wish you didn't have to put up with people who disrespect you like that, and I hope things go well for you.
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